Bri Fowle
I think that the ending of the book was quite interesting in the fact that it further proves the point that there is a baseline in the detective genre. He figured it out, even though there were many obstacles along the way and he wasn’t even supposed to be figuring out where Rusty Regan went. I also thought it very interesting the parts that the Sternwood daughters played in the end. Carmen asks very innocently at first if he can help her learn to shoot, and then fires point-blank at him and tries to kill him. It’s a good thing he loaded the gun with blanks first. Then we move on to Vivian, who turns out to have an integral part in every part of the story and confesses to everything after he tells her what he thinks happened, with the story revolving around her part. In the process, we also figure out the underlying mystery of Rusty Regan, turns out that Carmen used the same methods as she tried with Marlowe and hid him there. It’s so interesting how in both detective stories we have witnessed, the man obviously figures it out, no matter what, but the woman involved has an integral part in the story and we find out that she was not who we thought she was. She may not have done any of the shooting or killing, but she played the part that set the mystery in motion. The naïve seeming character turns out to be the mastermind.
Thursday, June 25, 2009
Mo' Money, Mo' Problems
Money doesn’t buy happiness. On the contrary, it usually creates problems. As Bryan mentioned in class, “rich people are only interesting if they’re in trouble.” I am currently trying to figure out why society has such a fascination with the wealthy.
The Big Sleep is centered on the rich Sternwood family, of which one of the daughter’s is being blackmailed for a large sum of money (this is where the need for a detective comes into play). The rich are always the best targets for bribery and ransom; they can always fork over large sums of money to stay out of trouble, and for some reason, one family member is almost always getting his or her hands dirty.
Rich families are never what they ought to be. We talked about how the Sternwood’s are “fallen” characters. The daughters attended good private schools, were exposed to the best educations, yet out of boredom have started to ruin their own lives. They waste away in their giant mansions, throw away thousands of dollars gambling, are promiscuous, and mingle with seedy crowds. Their downfall is their monetary status; they don’t need to work, leaving them an awful lot of free time, and as they say, “an idle mind is the devil’s plaything.”
Today we are still obsessed with the rich and famous. Celebrity gossip blogs only feed our hunger. Many spikes in celebrity popularity have to do with some incident they were involved in, whether it’s an arrest, adultery or a DUI. Popularity sky rockets and the person under the lens gets their 15 minutes of extreme stardom. Isn’t it awful how we thrive on other’s sins?
Maybe we like knowing that the rich also have hard lives, in which they have to take out the trash and occasionally make the same bad judgments we do. However, we can watch their flubs get televised and documented, and feel better than we are relatively unknown and that our personal lives are still personal. Money really doesn’t make you happy or your life easier, because when you screw up, (which is inevitable, we’re all human after all), everyone will be watching.
bryce rubin
Maybe it is Modern Art?
After reading chapters 20-26 and writing my blog post last night I think we learned something more about Marlowe the character and Marlowe the man that makes him even more real than I may have originally thought. Within those chapters we learn that Marlowe is not just interested in the money, for once the “case” is complete and the check in the bank, he heads back out in search of Regan. This has to be from a connection he feels with General Sternwood or maybe even with the thrill or the need to know why. Also we see the human, the mortality of Marlowe when he is taken by surprise and has the crap beat out of him. I feel that these events prove to us or show us a sense of realism, he no longer is the knight in shinning armor; he is a human looking for answers just like everyone else.
With that said, I feel that it would not be a stretch to say that it is this sense of realism or the somewhat chaotic , stream of consciousness form that makes this closer to modern art than I had previously thought. If we are to say that T.S. Eliot’s “The Wasteland” is art or modern art with its stream of consciousness, rambling as if it were the thought being tossed around in ones mind, then naturally we would have to say that, The Big Sleep, too is modern art or at least eerily close to it. They both are predominantly first person rants, constant thoughts, conversations, and just trying to make sense of a “modern world.”
Now, armed with my new found perspective, thanks to T.S. Eliot and the middle chapters of Chandler, I feel confident in saying, yes, Chandler’s, The Big Sleep, was a play on modern art in its time period.
- Brad
With that said, I feel that it would not be a stretch to say that it is this sense of realism or the somewhat chaotic , stream of consciousness form that makes this closer to modern art than I had previously thought. If we are to say that T.S. Eliot’s “The Wasteland” is art or modern art with its stream of consciousness, rambling as if it were the thought being tossed around in ones mind, then naturally we would have to say that, The Big Sleep, too is modern art or at least eerily close to it. They both are predominantly first person rants, constant thoughts, conversations, and just trying to make sense of a “modern world.”
Now, armed with my new found perspective, thanks to T.S. Eliot and the middle chapters of Chandler, I feel confident in saying, yes, Chandler’s, The Big Sleep, was a play on modern art in its time period.
- Brad
Ending of the Big Sleep
The ending of The Big Sleep was an unexpected one but at the same time you cannot say you did not see it coming. I somewhat thought that the two daughters would be involved in the murder someway or the other just by the interaction they had with Marlow. They both seemed to have an agenda about them, but in all honesty I would not have thought it would have turned out the way it did. I did not see Vivian character shaping out the way it did by the end of the book. This because I never would of thought she would have cared as much for sister as she did and especially for her dying father feelings. This was an eye-opener for me and made me respect what Vivian did for her family. In terms of Carmen killing Mr. Regan I somewhat could of seen her killing him but the explanation of her having a mental illness made the whole mystery somewhat more understandable and gave the book more validity.
To refer back to my original post about gender stereotypes I would have to say that the ending of the book rejects some of the notions I had about the women in the book and especially Vivian. In that she turned out to be a much stronger woman than first perceived and a key factor in keeping her family together.
Pranav Shankla
To refer back to my original post about gender stereotypes I would have to say that the ending of the book rejects some of the notions I had about the women in the book and especially Vivian. In that she turned out to be a much stronger woman than first perceived and a key factor in keeping her family together.
Pranav Shankla
Not so surprising
After finishing the book it is pretty outstanding how similar Brick and The Big Sleep really are. Brick is basically the teenage version of The Big Sleep, change a few ages, names, locations, and really it’s the same storyline. Although unfortunately since we had talked about the similarities between the characters reading the final chapters were not the most surprising of endings. Although, it still leaves some uncertainties, such as, why exactly does Mr. Marlowe think of Mona at the end? When Mr. Marlowe and Mona kiss, I thought about if there was any correlation between Mona and Vivian. Really, they are the only two female characters that prove to have good in them. Mr. Marlowe obviously is able to see this, and feels for the characters, unlike Carmen who is throwing herself onto him, and he rejects. Another unanswered question is how did Marlowe know that Carmen was going to attempt to kill him after he had finished talking to her father. It makes me wonder if Marlowe realized it in the car and swapped the bullets during the car ride, or before. Although, I feel as if he had known that Regan was dead because of Carmen before he went in to talk to the General he would no have agreed to find Regan…
Conclusion of The Big Sleep
I was mildly surprised by the conclusion of The Big Sleep. I was not at all expecting to find out that Carmen killed Rusty Regan. In a way the ending redeemed Vivian a little in my mind. Throughout the book I thought she was just a clever, wild, spoiled and hard woman. However, the end reveals that she cares deeply for her sister and cares about her father. It’s true that she didn’t love her husband and that his death didn’t overly bother her but she only covered it up to protect her sister and father. Carmen’s character also became clearer to me at the end of the book. Throughout The Big Sleep I was totally confused by Carmen’s actions, I just couldn’t figure her out. The conclusion of the book reveals that Carmen is basically mentally unstable in addition to which, she has epileptic fits. Suddenly Carmen’s hissing and foaming at the mouth makes more sense. In addition, her strong desire to be accepted by men and her crazy reaction when she isn’t also makes more sense. I kind of feel sorry for Carmen because she is so messed up.
I was also surprised that Marlowe ended up killing Eddie Mars’ body guard. I think that it is indicative of Chandler’s view of women that the only female character Marlowe thinks is worth anything is Mona Mars. Mona is sweet, gentle, kind, attractive and very loyal, similar to a prized dog. All of the strong independent female characters in The Big Sleep are some combination of crazy, greedy, slutty and heartless. Mona is not independent or overly strong and yet she is the one female character Marlowe (and one could argue Chandler) thinks is a worthwhile female.
-Samantha Pepper
I was also surprised that Marlowe ended up killing Eddie Mars’ body guard. I think that it is indicative of Chandler’s view of women that the only female character Marlowe thinks is worth anything is Mona Mars. Mona is sweet, gentle, kind, attractive and very loyal, similar to a prized dog. All of the strong independent female characters in The Big Sleep are some combination of crazy, greedy, slutty and heartless. Mona is not independent or overly strong and yet she is the one female character Marlowe (and one could argue Chandler) thinks is a worthwhile female.
-Samantha Pepper
Past and present/poetry and story
It is important to keep moving forward while, at the same time, glancing back at the road already traveled. In doing so, we pay homage to our predecessors while developing and expanding our own legacies. Often, the world as we know it can seem vast, overwhelming, and unconquerable. But, if we examine the discoveries and innovations of those who came before us, we can apply history’s knowledge to our own lives and art. If we do not learn from history we are like a child; destined to be stuck in a perpetual state of ignorance and, for certain, not the originators that we often pride ourselves to be. You must pardon the cliché but, when it comes to literature, it is impossible to reinvent the wheel. Instead, we should learn from the innovators and put forward our own minute contributions.
Earlier in class, I addressed the issue of the author’s chicken and egg dilemma. Does story precede poetry or vice versa? I think that for an author to effectively lay out a message and create writing that will stimulate the reader, the poetry (message) must come first. For one’s characters to be convincing, they have to be sure in their ways. Their actions must dictate certain undertones and reflect an identifiable characteristic to the reader. In that sense the story follows the poetry. There is no room for ambiguity in lasting writing. Time after time when you read the authors that have entered immortality through literature, their writing seems to be driven by an almost angelic force.
-Jason Barnett
Earlier in class, I addressed the issue of the author’s chicken and egg dilemma. Does story precede poetry or vice versa? I think that for an author to effectively lay out a message and create writing that will stimulate the reader, the poetry (message) must come first. For one’s characters to be convincing, they have to be sure in their ways. Their actions must dictate certain undertones and reflect an identifiable characteristic to the reader. In that sense the story follows the poetry. There is no room for ambiguity in lasting writing. Time after time when you read the authors that have entered immortality through literature, their writing seems to be driven by an almost angelic force.
-Jason Barnett
Wednesday, June 24, 2009
blog 2
The second half of the book has made me think of how Carmen and Laura from the Brick are so similar in character and both capable of been the masterminds behind both murders. They both have the same aurora around them. That being beautiful and at the same time being manipulative towards the main male characters.
Both characters in the book are seen to be young and beautiful and at the same time very naive and helpless. However both have the persona about them to be young and restless and been involved in the wrong crowd. For example, Carmen seems to have been involved with lots of young men and at the same time throws herself at them. Whereas Laura is not so forward with the male characters but can show her sweet side to everyone as seen by her relationship with Brandon. Even though there are some differences between the ways they interact with men, the notion that they are involved in the wrong crowd is there. Carmen has entered the world of smut books as seen by the naked pictures taken of her and Laura is known to be involved with a drug dealing community.
Expanding on my thought of how they interact with the male characters there are certain similarities and differences, but ultimately they both fall for the male character in different situations but perhaps for the same reason. Laura keeps her distance from Brandon from the beginning, however as the story continues she makes a move on him and is successful when he is physically hurt and emotionally down. Where Carmen is seen making a move on Marlow from the opening scene and continues this agenda throughout the book without hesitation. This leads to the question that could Carmen be involved in the death of Mr. Regan and show how both female characters, not appease there female stereotypes, as once perceived.
Pranav Shankla
Both characters in the book are seen to be young and beautiful and at the same time very naive and helpless. However both have the persona about them to be young and restless and been involved in the wrong crowd. For example, Carmen seems to have been involved with lots of young men and at the same time throws herself at them. Whereas Laura is not so forward with the male characters but can show her sweet side to everyone as seen by her relationship with Brandon. Even though there are some differences between the ways they interact with men, the notion that they are involved in the wrong crowd is there. Carmen has entered the world of smut books as seen by the naked pictures taken of her and Laura is known to be involved with a drug dealing community.
Expanding on my thought of how they interact with the male characters there are certain similarities and differences, but ultimately they both fall for the male character in different situations but perhaps for the same reason. Laura keeps her distance from Brandon from the beginning, however as the story continues she makes a move on him and is successful when he is physically hurt and emotionally down. Where Carmen is seen making a move on Marlow from the opening scene and continues this agenda throughout the book without hesitation. This leads to the question that could Carmen be involved in the death of Mr. Regan and show how both female characters, not appease there female stereotypes, as once perceived.
Pranav Shankla
Realistic Hero
Philip Marlowe a hero; if there were enough like him, maybe, “the world would be a very safe place to live in, and yet not too dull to be worth living in.” (Chandler, “The Simple Art of Murder”) So maybe this is a bit of a stretch, how can a hero have such little concern for rules or authority? How can a hero seem so distant, disliked, disinterested?
So, maybe, Marlowe isn’t the knight in shining armor that we all envision when we think of a hero. This doesn’t mean he can’t still be a hero or a “good man” that lives up to the ideals of Chandler. I would argue that Marlowe is that guy who is rude with wit, has a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and contempt for pettiness. I would also add that it is these ideals that make Marlowe real.
Marlowe obviously does not work solely for the money, as Chandler puts it, “He is a relatively poor man, or he would not be a detective at all.” So there has to be some ulterior motive to go through the experiences necessary to be a good detective for little pay. I feel that Marlowe literally enjoys helping people; he does what he does for the client. I feel this is what makes him real, you don’t see Firemen/ women or police men and women at the top of the Forbes wealthiest people list or any where near it; they do it for the thrill and the satisfaction of helping someone. Sure he and his fellow “hero’s” do earn a little something to make it worth wile, just not enough to be the only motive. I would argue that in how Marlowe interacts with Carmen and how he protects the General in chapter 8 and again in front of Cronjeger, he is showing some emotional concern for the family, not too deep, at least not yet, just enough to give him that alternative motive that makes all the work worth his time and energy.
Is he real? Does the book contain some realism? I would argue yes, it does. I do believe that it pushes the line of being idealistic but it still manages to work in enough practical emotion and relationships to Marlowe’s character to be believable.
-Brad
So, maybe, Marlowe isn’t the knight in shining armor that we all envision when we think of a hero. This doesn’t mean he can’t still be a hero or a “good man” that lives up to the ideals of Chandler. I would argue that Marlowe is that guy who is rude with wit, has a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and contempt for pettiness. I would also add that it is these ideals that make Marlowe real.
Marlowe obviously does not work solely for the money, as Chandler puts it, “He is a relatively poor man, or he would not be a detective at all.” So there has to be some ulterior motive to go through the experiences necessary to be a good detective for little pay. I feel that Marlowe literally enjoys helping people; he does what he does for the client. I feel this is what makes him real, you don’t see Firemen/ women or police men and women at the top of the Forbes wealthiest people list or any where near it; they do it for the thrill and the satisfaction of helping someone. Sure he and his fellow “hero’s” do earn a little something to make it worth wile, just not enough to be the only motive. I would argue that in how Marlowe interacts with Carmen and how he protects the General in chapter 8 and again in front of Cronjeger, he is showing some emotional concern for the family, not too deep, at least not yet, just enough to give him that alternative motive that makes all the work worth his time and energy.
Is he real? Does the book contain some realism? I would argue yes, it does. I do believe that it pushes the line of being idealistic but it still manages to work in enough practical emotion and relationships to Marlowe’s character to be believable.
-Brad
Carmen
I heard someone respond today in class to the question do you think Carmen is the murderer, saying, “there is no way that dumb blond killed anyone.” Well, they were wrong. If you relate this book to stories around this time period, it is pretty obvious that she most likely is the killer. Many stories from this time period reflect the nature of the “vixen.” A sex symbol that seems innocent to some degree and captures the attention of the main character, which is usually a “tough guy” or in this case, “the knight.” Later on in the story you find this “helpless woman” is actually the mastermind behind most of the crime, murder, etcetera while the main character has been blinded by the woman’s charm, innocents, lust, or whatever else. Let me just state, that Carmen is completely insane. She keeps a childlike, innocent mask on while she giggles and sucks her thumb through the movie. She is seen as unintelligible, which seems to be true for the most part. Her sister Vivian seems to have a little more of the brains compared to her sister and Carmen would have never been able to cover the murder as long as she did if it wasn’t for her help. Unseen by all, she has the heart of a murderer, but she is loved and desired by most men. Unfortunately, seen by feminist, this character is everything they despise.
-Erin L.
-Erin L.
parallels.
Bri Fowle
After reading our assigned chapters for tonight, I thought about how similar the basic storyline is in both Brick and The Big Sleep. It makes me wonder whether the basic storyline of the hardboiled detective fiction/noir genres are all the same baseline. There is this tough, manly, unafraid man that has a mystery that falls into his lap one way or another, and he sets out to solve this mystery, whatever it takes. He meets many other people along the way, and he is always able to get what he wants from them. The men are always very masculine and he is not afraid of whatever they happen to put up as a fight against him. For Brendan, he was not afraid of physical violence and thus earned the respect of the people who were throwing the punches. He was very resilient and wouldn’t stop until he got what he wanted from someone. For Marlowe, he has had a gun pointed in his face and doesn’t even flinch, and by doing that he throws off his opponent somewhat and he uses that to his advantage. The women in the stories are usually very naïve-seeming and coy, but in the end they seem to be very manipulative and not nearly as unintelligent as they seem. Another parallel that I see in the stories is that some of the women are always trying to distract the detective with their sex appeal to try and gain their trust, and both detectives are not interested or blow them off. In Brick, you see this partially with Kara, but mostly with Laura. In Marlowe’s case, both Vivian and Carmen are trying to throw themselves on him, but he seems to be completely uninterested.
After reading our assigned chapters for tonight, I thought about how similar the basic storyline is in both Brick and The Big Sleep. It makes me wonder whether the basic storyline of the hardboiled detective fiction/noir genres are all the same baseline. There is this tough, manly, unafraid man that has a mystery that falls into his lap one way or another, and he sets out to solve this mystery, whatever it takes. He meets many other people along the way, and he is always able to get what he wants from them. The men are always very masculine and he is not afraid of whatever they happen to put up as a fight against him. For Brendan, he was not afraid of physical violence and thus earned the respect of the people who were throwing the punches. He was very resilient and wouldn’t stop until he got what he wanted from someone. For Marlowe, he has had a gun pointed in his face and doesn’t even flinch, and by doing that he throws off his opponent somewhat and he uses that to his advantage. The women in the stories are usually very naïve-seeming and coy, but in the end they seem to be very manipulative and not nearly as unintelligent as they seem. Another parallel that I see in the stories is that some of the women are always trying to distract the detective with their sex appeal to try and gain their trust, and both detectives are not interested or blow them off. In Brick, you see this partially with Kara, but mostly with Laura. In Marlowe’s case, both Vivian and Carmen are trying to throw themselves on him, but he seems to be completely uninterested.
Deceptive Ladies
Ever since completing Brick, I have grown increasingly suspicious of Carmen Sternwood. I had thought of her as sort of naïve and helpless, and I never would have thought she was capable of masterminding evil if the movie hadn’t been paired with this story. Carmen’s character has so far mirrored Laura’s, though there are some slight differences.
What leads me to believe Carmen is somewhat of a mastermind is how Laura’s character progressed along with the story Brick. Laura appears to be harmless in the beginning. She is slight and pretty with a very feminine voice, always looks lovely, is very popular, and is sweet to everyone. Though she is all of these things, she is also involved with drug dealing, tarnishing her pretty, feminine character. Carmen is used to having men fall over themselves after her. She is also young and beautiful, and like Laura, is involved in less than savory affairs. Carmen has plunged herself into the world of smut, posing nude for Geiger to put in his infamous smut books.
In both stories, these women come onto the leading male characters, though in different situations in their respective stories. Carmen tries to seduce Marlowe the minute they meet, and scurries off when the butler walks in on her attempts with the detective. She makes her moves on Marlowe at his strongest, when they first meet, while he is still a stranger to her. Laura is distant throughout the story, but uses her womanly ways to comfort Brendan later on when he is exhausted from both physical beatings and the emotional toll of his girlfriend’s death. She is successful. Another difference between the two women is that Laura always seems very collected and together, and Carmen always appears emotionally unstable.
In my previous post I bashed Carmen’s character and said she was completely weak and disposable. My thoughts have completely changed and all of a sudden I am extremely suspicious of Carmen. Perhaps she is stronger than I thought she was. It is entirely possible she is playing every single one of these people, including our hero Marlowe, and they are all eating out of the palm of her small, delicate hand. Only time will tell.
Bryce Rubin
Second Big SleepPost
It is strange to me that Chandler is so preoccupied with “realistic” detective novels. The Big Sleep doesn’t seem overly realistic to me. It certainty has a grittiness to it that might be perceived as realistic, but how many people, even private detectives, see three dead bodies in less than five days? The Big Sleep seems to me to have a kind of superficial reality to it. It is gritty and “hardboiled” and the characters are earthy and dangerous. However, the characters lack a certain amount of depth and are very shallow. Perhaps Chandler has created his own version of reality. It seems like he wishes that real life was as exciting as Marlowe’s day-to-day existence.
On a completely different topic, I found one scene of our second reading particularly interesting; the scene where Marlowe returns to his apartment and finds a naked Carmen Sternwood in his bed. In this scene we see a little deeper into Marlowe’s private life. He is vastly upset that Carmen is in his apartment. He feels that it is very invasive for her to be there. He reveals to the reader that he has few possessions and none of any real value. However, he views his apartment and the items within it as the only thing he has to himself. He even goes so far to say that his room and possessions are all that he has for a family. He also mentions some of the items holding memories for him. So we discover that Marlowe does in fact have a past, one he wants to keep memories from. So far that is the only scene in the book that points to Marlowe being more than just a private detective all the time.
-Samantha Pepper
On a completely different topic, I found one scene of our second reading particularly interesting; the scene where Marlowe returns to his apartment and finds a naked Carmen Sternwood in his bed. In this scene we see a little deeper into Marlowe’s private life. He is vastly upset that Carmen is in his apartment. He feels that it is very invasive for her to be there. He reveals to the reader that he has few possessions and none of any real value. However, he views his apartment and the items within it as the only thing he has to himself. He even goes so far to say that his room and possessions are all that he has for a family. He also mentions some of the items holding memories for him. So we discover that Marlowe does in fact have a past, one he wants to keep memories from. So far that is the only scene in the book that points to Marlowe being more than just a private detective all the time.
-Samantha Pepper
6/24/09
I have started to wonder if in fact Mr. Marlowe is truly not emotionally involved. Not so much that he is in love with one of the daughters, but more so he is in love with the case. He has now at the point of the book become completely obsessed with it. In which case, I would say yes, he is emotionally involved. He has gotten to the point where even though he has been paid and dismissed from the case he still continues on. So it is not about the money, although I’m not sure what it is about yet, whether it is for fame, glory, or for his own stubbornness that he can not let this case go without finding out all the mysteries within the case.
I guess it would not be that thrilling of a book if that had truly been the end of the book, in which case maybe it is just Chandlers way of making the book more exciting, but I think whether Mr. Marlowe intended it or not, he is deep in this case. Similar to the way Brendan was involved with the case of Emily. Even though his love was dead, he still pushed on to find out more information even though it really was not going to make anything ‘better’. It was really just his own curiosity and determination that continued the chase to find out who had killed Emily and why. As of now Mr. Marlowe thinks he knows who killed Geiger, and Taylor, but does not know exactly why, and I think that is what is killing him, himself.
I guess it would not be that thrilling of a book if that had truly been the end of the book, in which case maybe it is just Chandlers way of making the book more exciting, but I think whether Mr. Marlowe intended it or not, he is deep in this case. Similar to the way Brendan was involved with the case of Emily. Even though his love was dead, he still pushed on to find out more information even though it really was not going to make anything ‘better’. It was really just his own curiosity and determination that continued the chase to find out who had killed Emily and why. As of now Mr. Marlowe thinks he knows who killed Geiger, and Taylor, but does not know exactly why, and I think that is what is killing him, himself.
Tuesday, June 23, 2009
A rough neighborhood
There’s a quote in a book that applies to all these detective stories. “When you are willing to do the things your enemy does not expect of you, then you have defeated him.” Though Mr. Marlowe and Brendan are put time and again between a tough guy and hard decision, we see them persevere, against the odds and to the great surprise of their enemies. Consider any of several scenes in “Brick” where Brendan beats his enemy, be it Tugger in his car, Brad with his posse, or Dode with his group. In every case Brendan is outmatched and expected to chicken out, back off, or get scared away. In every case Brendan gets what he needs, not through any particular brilliance on his own part, but by doing the thing his enemy does not expect. He suffers the slings and arrows of outrageous punks to get what he’s there for.
Turn the page to our tough-as-nails Marlowe. Staring down the barrel of a gun puts most men in their place pretty damn quick, yet Marlowe hasn’t much patience for guys and girls who talk big but run out of words for a brick wall. Be his opponent a rich girl used to getting her way or a tough guy hiding behind the threat of a lead sandwich, he will not be cowed and will not be placated. He needs information and he gets it, and throughout we see a strange set of paradoxical traits appear via his dealings. There’s a sort of loyalty, split between his customers and his paycheck. A willingness to divulge information when he needs and a hand glued to his chest otherwise. A respect for the law, or at least an admission of the copper’s territory, but he’s willing to throw a punch or break a window. Strange, lucky, tough, maybe foolish but definitely not stupid, these two guys are worth watchin’ out for.
-Jeremy Aronow
Turn the page to our tough-as-nails Marlowe. Staring down the barrel of a gun puts most men in their place pretty damn quick, yet Marlowe hasn’t much patience for guys and girls who talk big but run out of words for a brick wall. Be his opponent a rich girl used to getting her way or a tough guy hiding behind the threat of a lead sandwich, he will not be cowed and will not be placated. He needs information and he gets it, and throughout we see a strange set of paradoxical traits appear via his dealings. There’s a sort of loyalty, split between his customers and his paycheck. A willingness to divulge information when he needs and a hand glued to his chest otherwise. A respect for the law, or at least an admission of the copper’s territory, but he’s willing to throw a punch or break a window. Strange, lucky, tough, maybe foolish but definitely not stupid, these two guys are worth watchin’ out for.
-Jeremy Aronow
First post
I can tell when the book was written by the way Chandler refers to women. The male characters are rude, brash, and even physically violent with the female characters in The Big Sleep. For instance, in chapter 7, Marlowe's second run in with Carmen Sternwood, "I slapped her face. She blinked and stopped chuckling. I slapped her again...I slapped her around a little more. She didn't mind the slaps." In todays society, no matter how dim witted the woman is, it would be an outrage to slap a female. The theme of male dominance is present throughout the book. When Marlowe met Vivian for the first time he mostly talked about how great her legs looked. Then in chapter 14 when Agnes and Marlowe got into a scuffle over the gun, Marlowe "cracked her on the head with the gun" and again "hit Agnes on the head with less delicacy than before". The women are nothing more than the trouble makers of the novel: the Sternwood sisters and Agnes all being a negative aspect to Marlowe's case. The time period in which the book was written probably has a lot to do with why women are portrayed this way.
6/23/09
One of the things I find that I really enjoy in reading, The Big Sleep, is the framing of landscape and its surroundings that Raymond Chandler expresses through his writing. He really gives the reader a different advantage point that is not common in most of the authors that I have read personally. In most of the scenarios in the book it feels as though he is more concerned about the placement of people and objects in a room or atmosphere and the art of conversation, rather than focusing on a plot in a way. He very poetically describes things in a way that is mysterious yet very informative and intriguing to the reader. I have to admit, I am not an avid reader of detective novels nor have I ever read one in my life. But I am very surprised in the outcome of this novel thus far. I have found that I am more intrigued than I had expected for myself and I believe it is because of Chandler’s writing style and the way that he creatively and informatively draws the characters atmosphere. Another aspect I really enjoy about Chandler’s writing is that he really allows the reader to see California in a way that is very true to the time period of the 1930’s. I really enjoy how he captures the level of corruption of police at the time. I feel that he really embellishes this in a very successful way.
-Erin L
-Erin L
After reading the first eleven or so chapters of The Big Sleep I am starting to understand the purpose of a detective novel. This novel in particular has given me insight that I never would have imagined. The Big Sleep is written in such a way; that the readers themselves must act as a detective. The protagonist
We don’t find out a whole lot about
After reading these chapters I have come to the realization that detective novels are written for entertainment. However, entertainment is not the only reason for these novels. They are written to make you think.
The Blond One
Women, to Chandler, must be a joke. Every time a female character is introduced into a scene, her appearance is what is first described. Personality and character come second hand to Chandler, as mere side notes or end details. He portrays woman as weak, stupid and submissive beings, too dumb to answer simple questions, having little knowledge on any given subject, including that of their profession. This attitude, of course, can be attributed to the time in which this story was written.
On instance in which I was particularly confused by the women in this story is the murder scene, where Marlowe walks into Arthur Geiger’s house. Carmen sits in shock of what she has just witnessed, motionless in a chair at the table. Her eyes are wide, her mouth is slightly open, showing teeth, and Marlowe notes that she let’s out a quiet chuckle. …A chuckle? She’s laughing? Is this meant to be girlish and cute? Granted, Carmen is not laughing in the face of danger, but the sound that escapes from Carmen’s slight body could be described as something a little more sincere than that of a chuckle.
In another scene, Carmen is acting hysterically while they revisit the crime scene. Marlowe slaps her across the face, notes that she isn’t a stranger to such an action. That almost offends me and I’m no feminist. No woman would ever be “used” to getting a swift blow to the cheek and saying so is downright ridiculous.
Carmen isn’t the only victim of Chandler’s sexism. There is also the case of “the blonde” who tends to Geiger’s shop. She knows nothing about specialty books of which she is supposed to be an expert. Granted, Geiger’s shop is the front of a smut operation, Chandler still depicts her as a good-for-nothing ditz. Later on when she is with Joe Brody she is still Chandler’s idea of a woman. She gets offended easily, complains, her man does not defend her, and she is still frequently referred to by the color of her hair.
Of course I recognize that Chandler’s attitudes reflect those of society in the 1930’s. I do not consider it a character flaw, merely a characteristic of attitudes during this time. Recognizing this as a mass character flaw of the past is what allows us to laugh about it today.
Bryce Rubin
Similarities and Differences
Deception and a cool hand seem to be the keys to good investigative work. In both Brick and The Big Sleep, the respective main characters are social renegades; which is to say, embodying the master PI. The master PI is always looking for the next play before the previous one fades out. He understands that nothing is as it appears, displays a certain clarity amongst the unexpected and, at the proper time, can harness this knowledge to his advantage. The Big Sleep, written in the thirties portrays extreme structural similarities to Brick, 2005. Both stories take place in communities that contain hierarchies and sub-groups. The main characters in both stories share a lone-wolf tendency that allows them to move freely and unabated through their respective underworlds.
Where the two pieces divert, however, is at the juncture of description. We can glean much more information from Chandler because, for one, literary works can provide a portal into a character’s mind that a movie simply cannot. Chandler is also more engaging in his use of foreshadowing and first-person narrative. He provides a thriller that is lasting and makes the reader crave to delve deeper, not only into the story, but into Marlowe’s past. He must know that the reader desires these things, yet he holds back. This, I think, is the sign of an effective writer; patience. The idea of writing is to expose the reader to an entire world in and of itself. The author must formulate this world in his head and communicate it on paper. He already knows where the story is headed, but he must communicate only the essential details at precisely the right time. I think Chandler is effective at this, because while I find myself not liking anything in particular about this novel thus far, I cannot help but be intrigued as to what direction it is headed toward.
-Jason Barnett
Where the two pieces divert, however, is at the juncture of description. We can glean much more information from Chandler because, for one, literary works can provide a portal into a character’s mind that a movie simply cannot. Chandler is also more engaging in his use of foreshadowing and first-person narrative. He provides a thriller that is lasting and makes the reader crave to delve deeper, not only into the story, but into Marlowe’s past. He must know that the reader desires these things, yet he holds back. This, I think, is the sign of an effective writer; patience. The idea of writing is to expose the reader to an entire world in and of itself. The author must formulate this world in his head and communicate it on paper. He already knows where the story is headed, but he must communicate only the essential details at precisely the right time. I think Chandler is effective at this, because while I find myself not liking anything in particular about this novel thus far, I cannot help but be intrigued as to what direction it is headed toward.
-Jason Barnett
definitely a pattern....
Bri Fowle
I find it interesting that in both Brick and The Big Sleep, the gender roles are nearly the same. Women are never equal to the men. They are used as sex symbols, and are generally not nearly as smart as the men. The men in the stories are always taking care of the women. The men are the ones who handle the business, and the women usually don’t have much idea of what is going on. The women are definitely treated differently than the men, usually put to the side as the men figure out what’s what.
In Brick, every single female (with the exception of The Pin’s mother) that Brendan is associated with has some level of sexuality associated with them. Emily was Brendan’s ex-girlfriend who he clearly still cared for, Kara always acted like she wanted him sexually, and Laura seemed to be interested in him as well. Most of the males that are in the movie are very masculine, and not afraid to get their hands dirty. They are portrayed as smarter than the women and are more involved in the storyline.
In The Big Sleep, it is much of the same. Carmen loves to act coy and flirt with Marlowe, and he definitely takes notice to Vivian’s legs as he is talking to her. Agnes, Brody’s girlfriend, acts very hysterical and unintelligent but she is also regarded as good looking. The women are constantly out of the loop when it comes to what is going on, and it seems like they are kept out of the loop for the sole reason that they are women.
Pranav Shankla
When reading the first half of the Big Sleep the topic, which seemed to interest, me the most had to be the way Raymond Chandler showed examples of gender stereotyping. For instance, the female characters in the book seem to be very naïve and use their good looks to get things done. An example of this would be one of the leading female characters in the book Carmen Sternwood. She plays the role of the general daughter and is portrayed as a beautiful girl who at the same time can be very flirtatious and giggly. A great example of these characteristics in the book would be her interaction with Philip Marlow, in the opening scene of the book. The dialogue between the two is very simple but Carmen manner is very flirtatious and of a teasing manner as seen by her throwing herself into his arms while her butler approaches the entranceway. Carmen sister, Vivian can be seen in the same way, she too plays the role of a beautiful woman and uses her good looks to add the element of danger and trouble to the plot and of course is very flirtatious with Philip Marlow.
The book also contains male stereotyping too. The male characters seem to be very daring men and use this persona to enhance the motive of acting tough and masculine. A great example of this is the lead character Marlow, in the opening paragraphs he is seen saving Carmen and committed to finding the truth about the murders and whatever cost even if it compromise the law because he works for himself and nobody else.
When reading the first half of the Big Sleep the topic, which seemed to interest, me the most had to be the way Raymond Chandler showed examples of gender stereotyping. For instance, the female characters in the book seem to be very naïve and use their good looks to get things done. An example of this would be one of the leading female characters in the book Carmen Sternwood. She plays the role of the general daughter and is portrayed as a beautiful girl who at the same time can be very flirtatious and giggly. A great example of these characteristics in the book would be her interaction with Philip Marlow, in the opening scene of the book. The dialogue between the two is very simple but Carmen manner is very flirtatious and of a teasing manner as seen by her throwing herself into his arms while her butler approaches the entranceway. Carmen sister, Vivian can be seen in the same way, she too plays the role of a beautiful woman and uses her good looks to add the element of danger and trouble to the plot and of course is very flirtatious with Philip Marlow.
The book also contains male stereotyping too. The male characters seem to be very daring men and use this persona to enhance the motive of acting tough and masculine. A great example of this is the lead character Marlow, in the opening paragraphs he is seen saving Carmen and committed to finding the truth about the murders and whatever cost even if it compromise the law because he works for himself and nobody else.
Is This Normal?
A question that came to me while reading was why is it that the character playing the detective role always tends to like to keep things covered up, close to the vest and ultimately away from the authorities? (Police etc.) This is evident in both “Brick” and Chandler’s The Big Sleep.
In “Brick,” the detective character constantly is laboring to keep details of his search in the dark to most people. He does not want to be seen in the open with his informational insider and in large part no one really knows or completely understands him and he seems to like it that way. If I were to attempt to try an answer my question based on these details, I would say well that makes sense, he wants to be sure that no one gets too close to his tail, possibly compromising his investigation. In this regard it makes sense; any good detective would do this. The tricky part for me, however, is why these “detectives” types i.e. Brennen and Marlowe, always seem to have little concern or regard for the judicial, civic, moral, or even ethical processes. This question arises for me when Brennen hides Emily’s body somewhere under the overpass and does not seem to mind too much even after an article is written in the paper about her missing. Never once does letting the authorities know or even help cross his mind. The same holds true for Marlow in Chandler’s book; Marlowe when confronted with the death of Geiger and when he returns from taking care of Carmen, Geiger’s body is nowhere to be found. Upon this discovery, however, Marlowe does not seem to mind; in fact he almost seemed to be comforted by the fact that now it would be easier to keep Carmen off the record.
It is just interesting to me that in both stories the detectives/ protagonists have no desire for help from the authorities who on the surface would seem to be exactly who they would want help or assistance from. Instead, these characters give the vibe that the authorities would bring more baggage and the possibility for collateral damage thus ruining their investigation. So for them less is more, their independent loner styles shine through and they prefer to work to the bottom of the situation no matter the consequences. But the question still remains, why? Is this notion true in all of the detective genre’s, and is this right, is this the best way to handle these situations, is it ethical, is it moral, or does it even matter?
-Brad
In “Brick,” the detective character constantly is laboring to keep details of his search in the dark to most people. He does not want to be seen in the open with his informational insider and in large part no one really knows or completely understands him and he seems to like it that way. If I were to attempt to try an answer my question based on these details, I would say well that makes sense, he wants to be sure that no one gets too close to his tail, possibly compromising his investigation. In this regard it makes sense; any good detective would do this. The tricky part for me, however, is why these “detectives” types i.e. Brennen and Marlowe, always seem to have little concern or regard for the judicial, civic, moral, or even ethical processes. This question arises for me when Brennen hides Emily’s body somewhere under the overpass and does not seem to mind too much even after an article is written in the paper about her missing. Never once does letting the authorities know or even help cross his mind. The same holds true for Marlow in Chandler’s book; Marlowe when confronted with the death of Geiger and when he returns from taking care of Carmen, Geiger’s body is nowhere to be found. Upon this discovery, however, Marlowe does not seem to mind; in fact he almost seemed to be comforted by the fact that now it would be easier to keep Carmen off the record.
It is just interesting to me that in both stories the detectives/ protagonists have no desire for help from the authorities who on the surface would seem to be exactly who they would want help or assistance from. Instead, these characters give the vibe that the authorities would bring more baggage and the possibility for collateral damage thus ruining their investigation. So for them less is more, their independent loner styles shine through and they prefer to work to the bottom of the situation no matter the consequences. But the question still remains, why? Is this notion true in all of the detective genre’s, and is this right, is this the best way to handle these situations, is it ethical, is it moral, or does it even matter?
-Brad
Gender in The Big Sleep
Samantha Pepper
The first half of The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler is rife with examples of gender stereotyping. The female characters in The Big Sleep all play simple, secondary roles. Their entire purpose seems to be to add an element of sex and to cause trouble. Most of the female characters in Chandler’s book are unintelligent, simpering sexpots. For example, Carmen Sternwood, who appears repeatedly throughout the book, is portrayed as a dumb, frivolous, spoiled rich girl. Carmen is constantly getting into trouble that the main character, Philip Marlowe, has to extract her from. Carmen relies on her looks to get men to do what she wants but she has few charms to back up her looks. Carmen’s sister, Vivian, is not as apparently dumb as Carmen but she is portrayed in an equally bad light. Vivian is a harsh, hard, cunning woman who seeks out danger and gets into trouble. In addition to which she is very attractive and flirts with Marlowe. Again her role is to add sex and danger/trouble to the plot. The only other female character worth noting in the first half of The Big Sleep is Agnes Lozelle, the girlfriend of Brody. She is attractive but doesn’t have a clue what is going on or how she should react to the situation around her. She is a fussy woman trying to use a man but failing at it.
The Big Sleep also contains male stereotypes in its first half. Most of the men in the book seem to be very masculine, tough, daring men. The only exceptions are Geiger, who is a dirty little man that gets murdered, and his boyfriend, Carol. The other male characters in the book revile Geiger and Carol for their lack of masculinity. Marlowe’s policeman friend goes so far as to say that he is happy that he doesn’t have to charge the guy who killed Geiger (because he is dead) because it he doesn’t think killing a man like Geiger much of a crime. The main male characters in The Big Sleep typify American masculinity, they are clever/smart, tough, not afraid to get dirty and of course they all drink and smoke.
The first half of The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler is rife with examples of gender stereotyping. The female characters in The Big Sleep all play simple, secondary roles. Their entire purpose seems to be to add an element of sex and to cause trouble. Most of the female characters in Chandler’s book are unintelligent, simpering sexpots. For example, Carmen Sternwood, who appears repeatedly throughout the book, is portrayed as a dumb, frivolous, spoiled rich girl. Carmen is constantly getting into trouble that the main character, Philip Marlowe, has to extract her from. Carmen relies on her looks to get men to do what she wants but she has few charms to back up her looks. Carmen’s sister, Vivian, is not as apparently dumb as Carmen but she is portrayed in an equally bad light. Vivian is a harsh, hard, cunning woman who seeks out danger and gets into trouble. In addition to which she is very attractive and flirts with Marlowe. Again her role is to add sex and danger/trouble to the plot. The only other female character worth noting in the first half of The Big Sleep is Agnes Lozelle, the girlfriend of Brody. She is attractive but doesn’t have a clue what is going on or how she should react to the situation around her. She is a fussy woman trying to use a man but failing at it.
The Big Sleep also contains male stereotypes in its first half. Most of the men in the book seem to be very masculine, tough, daring men. The only exceptions are Geiger, who is a dirty little man that gets murdered, and his boyfriend, Carol. The other male characters in the book revile Geiger and Carol for their lack of masculinity. Marlowe’s policeman friend goes so far as to say that he is happy that he doesn’t have to charge the guy who killed Geiger (because he is dead) because it he doesn’t think killing a man like Geiger much of a crime. The main male characters in The Big Sleep typify American masculinity, they are clever/smart, tough, not afraid to get dirty and of course they all drink and smoke.
6/23/09
Today in class we talked about how the main character is not very well described. We touched on it why we thought he was not well described a little bit, but I'd like to further my thoughts on the subject. Since the author poorly depicts the characters mannerisms and personal appearance, it is easier to come up with your own image of what his characteristics are. Often people add their own personal qualities to different characters in novels to make them seem relatable when the characters are not given adequate descriptions. Subconsciously it is easy to live vicariously through a character in novels. So for example, when we discussed in class all the different things that had happened in the novel so far, and it seemed horrific, but while reading it, it was easy not to feel that way because the author did not mention any emotions the characters had towards the events that occurred, allowing us to make our feelings upon the issue also be the feelings for the character. Therefore, making the character more and more relatable to ourselves, or in some cases someone that we may know. This can also add to the reason why people continue to read detective novels. It is almost as if it’s an egotistical habit to bring everything back to yourself, and creating a novel about yourself that is really about a fictional character that does not exist.
-Monica
-Monica
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Sunday, June 21, 2009
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